NBC15 Online Community

Okay. I'm trying to change my tune. Let's address the cornerstone issue: mackerel stocks.

Personally, I'm not interested in the talk about commercial fishermen "threatening endangered species" (other than the actual "targeted catch", I mean). It's not because I don't care - I do. It's just that I'm not convinced the arguments are sound. Granted, all I can point to is personal experience. Just because I'm related to someone who (despite having fished all of his life) doesn't seem to be catching turtles and dolphins and (respect to James :-P) birds, doesn't mean that other fishermen aren't catching them regularly. I understand that I can't sell my reasoning to personal perception. Could I be wrong? Sure. I don't think I am, but it's one of those things that'll take more than a few pictures of animals caught in nets to sway me. If you aren't going to give room for accidents, then maybe we ought to illegalize automobiles while we're at it (because I assure you, there are LOADS of roadkill pics on google, and I can start sharing if you'd like). So I'm not going to discuss that. Maybe I'm just too partial towards personal experience to really accept the numbers and the dramatic language (e.g. "indiscriminate", "random", "rape", "everything they touch") being thrown around.

I'm not interested in talking about the (so-called) "bad reputation" of commercial fishermen. Politicians, business owners, clergymen, commercial fishermen, CCA members - you can probably find dirt on people no matter what they represent. Could crimes be higher amongst commercial fishermen? Perhaps. But we can't go generalizing. A lot of dirty things happen in America's political system. Should we assume that all politicians are bad? Of course not. I personally think it's one of those ad homines cases. Let the justice system deal with criminals; don't play the ethics card. Besides, that has little to do with the issue at hand. I'm making it a point - from here on out - to not "blame" anything on the CCA. I might challenge the source if something's "fishy", but for the sake of logical discussion, I'm going to try to oust the negativity. I'm sure there are good-natured people in the CCA just like I know good-natured fishermen. Good people can disagree about serious things.

Now, I know that some of you may think that both of those issues are very important. If you do, you're certainly entitled to it. Discuss it on a different thread. Just not here.

What I want is a discussion about the stock. In other words, let's talk about the numbers (with sources). I don't mean the "looks of things". A lot of people are arguing that the stocks are down because things don't seem to be as they once were: you don't see schools as large (or as frequently) as you used to; you hardly catch anything anymore. Although personal observation may feel legitimate (observations are always good for "provoking" research), it's not anything we should ever depend on for fact (like what I was dealing with in the first paragraph). Can we all agree that the actual numbers - at this point - are what matter?

My aim here is to narrow this down to a discussion that might be profitable for all of us. Some people are just on here to fight; I'd like to think that others on both sides want what's best for the environment. That being said, let's talk about issues that pertain to stocks.

1. I'd like to hear what people feel about the migration issue. Some sites say that mackerel are migrating "to" this area; others say mackerel are migrating "through" it. I don't know about you guys, but I find this to be a very important topic. So what do you think and why? Give me some source information. For example, we know that Professor Ship feels like there's enough evidence to say that mackerel are migrating to this area. Putting aside personal observations (we're avoiding those, remember?), let's do some research. Sources and annotations included. What would indicate that mackerel end their journey here; what would suggest that "here" is only one more spot on the journey? Is there considerable record of mackerel appearing farther down the coast (MS) towards the end of the season? Is there no record? I think you guys get what I'm saying.

2. So we've heard the numbers. Commercial fishermen have caught (was it 900,000 lbs.?) more mackerel last year than they've caught in previous years. Sports fishermen aren't catching as many. Does that mean that they are being depeleted? Could it mean that the fish are acting differently? Keep in mind that - on this news forum - a fellow from Flordia said that (now, 7 years after the FL. net ban) rec. fishermen are doing just as poorly (if not worse) than they were doing before the nets were banned. Could it be the migration patterns (do they have slight variations every time)? Or, on the other hand, do migration patterns hardly ever change?

3. Sources. What are our sources relying on? Who should we rely on when one source says, "there's no real statistics to indicate that this stock is in danger" and another says, "the stocks are in terrible shape; something has to change."

I want to discuss it. Let's try to avoid dogmatic language. I just want to listen. I'm not going to rebuttle anything. I might ask a question about something that was said, but I'm not trying to "prove" my position. Anybody up for it? :)

Corey, I think the bycatch that most people are concerned with are the non-targeted fish species being caught.  Speckled trout and redfish, but especially speckled trout.  I'm sure most people don't think they're killing tons of birds. turtles or dolphins, that would be a pita for the net fisherman to deal with if they did.  Several people have stated they have seen hundreds of dead speckled trout floating in the water with gill marks after an area has been gill-net fished.  

And with this, it affects the stocks of other fish species in addition to mackerel and mullet.

I have no clue whether the mackerel is at a healthy maintainable level or not, I'm not out there doing larval studies,  I'm just someone who doesn't see them around much.

Since non-targeted species are also being affected, I don't think you can really leave them out of the equation though.

Corey:  Very good! Ditto

Corey if you read the information that Dr Shipp has on Spanish Migration it really makes sense. When birds migrate they of course head south in the fall and north in the spring. We only see one pattern here on our coast. The spanish get here in the spring and stay all summer. Once the netting season is over, if they were migtating through, the stocks should be as stong in the fall as they are in the spring. A so called spanish run. This is not occuring. From personal experience I took several trips off of Dauphin Island and Gulf shores to troll for spanish last fall. On each trip we only caught 1 or 2 spanish. You can say that maybe conditions weren't right but I have fished in the gulf for many years. I could not find the large schools that once dominated the coast in the fall. Heck it would have been great to see just one. This has been an ongoing trend.

If this is correct and it appears that it is then the fishing reports in Florida would support this theory. If we went to South America and caught, shot or what ever all the dove that migrate there then we would see a trend of depleation here. So if the spanish are migrating here and we are catching the majority of them the stocks in Florida would be lessening.

This is why it is important to stop the netting. They are very effieient in catching allot of spanish. Not many people target spanish on the rec side and when thy do they are tightly limited. But on the overall scale spanish are part of the food chain in the Gulf. If we loose them who knows what will go with them.

Saltcreep, I understand your concern. I'm just trying to isolate a topic :). If that's what you feel passionate about, then you should certainly pursue it. I only suggest that you don't just rely on "hearsay" or experience. If you're worried about the non-targeted stocks and whether or not they're in danger, keep your eye on the reports/numbers. Anyway, it's for another board. Thank you for your input.

Pomdog, thanks for expounding on Dr. Shipp's theory of migration. I'm doing research.

I guess the talks are over?

Interesting findings - we've (my family and I) gotten in touch with an esteemed marine biologist from Florida. We asked him how the mackerel migrate and he told us that the evidence weighs heaviest on the idea that they migrate east to west, not south/north. "So they do not migrate from southern Florida and end their migration near Alabama" we asked to clarify. He chuckled and replied with: "you must be dealing with Bobb Ship"

Ryan Newman, driver of the No. 12 Alltel Dodge loves fishing and enjoys the great outdoors. This weekends race at Pocono is especially a favorite of his because of the fishing holes nearby, Newman said on his Alltel Racing Podcast on Alltelracing.com! He recently fished up north in Canada, where he caught pike and other assorted fish. I heard fishing laws are pretty strict up there though!

Speaking of Newman, his No.12 Alltel Dodge showcar will be at 103 South Alabama Ave. in Monroeville, Ala.Wednesday, August 1, 2007.

   For the ultimate pit crew experience, fans can grab and air gun and demo the interactive tire changer on an actual quarter panel of the No. 12 Alltel Dodge. There, fans can clock their speed in changing a tire and compare it to the 13-second pit stops routinely recorded by the Alltel Race team. Gas can kiosks will also be available for those who wish to test their skills on video game untis featuring Ryan Newman's signature racing game.

For more information, fans can visit www.alltelracing.com.